June 21, 2013 at 2:33 pm #40740
It has been over a year since there was last posted something in this section of the forum so I thought it was time to post something here. This is sort of a pilot mini lesson which I will use to see if people are interested in them. Because of this I have kept the lesson very short, but the grammar in it is somewhat hard. If there is no interest in the lesson of course I won’t do a new one. I know everyone have rikaichan or an equivalent thing installed so I won’t do any questions regarding words that can be easily looked up. The questions aren’t in a particular order, but some of the first ones are probably the easiest. It is fine if you only answer some of the questions.
This lesson is taken from 選抜総選挙公式ガイドブック and is an introduction to a member of NMB48:
What does she mean by this
Why is there no な between the two words?
How would you translate this
※What dialect is this
What does this mean
※what would this be in 標準語
※= extra questions suggested by missing
What is ふぅちゃん’s charm point?
What does this mean (good luck looking it up)June 22, 2013 at 9:07 am #40746
I’ve never answered one of these before, but I have nothing to do so I may as well try.
1) The translation literally means “I have no individuality and I am still pure white.” Could that mean that she hasn’t distinguished herself enough from the other members, or maybe she hasn’t made herself unique enough?
2) I think there is no な because ひときわ works as an adverb.
3) I would translate as “emitting one’s presence more conspicuously.”
4) Could it be Osaka dialect maybe? And it seems like it means “I can’t do anything in particular.”
I suppose the standard would be 特には何もできない.
5) Is her charm point something fickle?
6) Fleeting manner or something?
These are all difficult questions. Do Japanese people really talk like this, using all sorts of unconventional words? If so then those who are learning are hopeless.June 22, 2013 at 12:07 pm #40747
Too difficult for me. Maybe I’m just lagging behind everyone, but I’ve a feeling you’re overestimating the skill level here. You and missingno15 might be able to answer stuff like this, but I’ve got no idea… I doubt many people will get the questions on dialect without looking it up – most learner material is in standard Japanese, so stuff like that’s quite an “advanced” topic (unless it’s a specific interest, I guess).June 22, 2013 at 3:40 pm #40750
I lost interest at “NMB48″. =P
Seriously, though, it’s the kanji that lost me. I’m still barely at primary-school level on kanji, so I’m not even close to being able to read any random passage, and didn’t really feel like sitting with a dictionary in my other hand. I did glance through the questions, though.
For question two, why should there be a な? It’s not a な-adjective. Is that supposed to be a trick question, or am I just plain missing something?June 22, 2013 at 5:49 pm #40751
Yeah, that’s another point: it might be better to write questions on a topic of more general interest. You and missing may be really deep into the whole “idol culture” thing, but if you’re not (as I’m guessing most people here aren’t), it’s really hard to care at all. Plus there’s a layer of context that’s missing if you’re not clued in (what exactly is a “charm point”?). It’s like if you were on an English-learning forum and gave people questions on a passage on My Little Pony… which is actually surprisingly similar to the whole idol thing, when you think about it.June 22, 2013 at 8:02 pm #40753
What does this mean (good luck looking it up)
It looks like weblio has it, and tells you げ is a suffix. I think the な part makes it an adjective.
Also, stackexchange has information about the げ suffix, and also examples that have げな, e.g. 言いたげな猫.
I don’t speak from experience though, and those are just links I found from doing some research. But it seems reasonable that はかなげな is related to the はかなさ at the end.June 23, 2013 at 8:39 am #40757
Regarding the skill level
I know the skill level for this lesson might be a bit too high, and that is also what Me and Missing agreed on yesterday. I didn’t have much time to find another text at that time and just wanted to do the lesson so I went with it anyway. There of course are easier texts out there, but it is really hard to find very easy material that is also native material. Since the whole objective of these mini lessons is to present natural Japanese and let people learn from it this of course means that beginners can’t join in. That said I think we have enough people here who are at a pretty decent level of Japanese, for example jkl and Tsetycoon13 who decided to answer on this. If I see something easier I will try to make a mini lesson from it to let more people have a chance.
Regarding the choice of subject
I will only do these based on things I read anyway, sorry :/
Sorry I am not a native English speaker and assumed チャームポイント was something that originated from English.
Answers will be coming up at some point tomorrow.June 23, 2013 at 12:54 pm #40758
Regarding charm points, Japanese loves grabbing English words and turning them into new things. I’ve a feeling the concept of charm points exists in English (though I wouldn’t know what to call it) but the phrase certainly doesn’t.
Also, I took a stab at one of the questions. Did you stop reading at the point where I said I’d stopped reading? =PJune 23, 2013 at 1:29 pm #40759
Yeah I know they like to do that, but it sounded pretty natural to me so I thought it would be correct English :P
Don’t worry I did see your answer. I will wait giving you an answer until I give possible answers to the rest of the questions though ^^June 24, 2013 at 1:13 am #40767
Okay time for some answers. These are the answers I would consider correct but it doesn’t necessarily mean other answers are wrong :)
①tsetycoon13 is on to the right thing here and I would agree with his answer for the most part.
She has a bland personality(no individuality). 今はまだ真っ白 emphasizes the point from before. Her personality is blank (indicates it can be changed) which as said in the next sentence, she wants to change. これから色を付けていきたいです
②Joel and tsetycoon13 are right here, it is an adverb not an adjective. This was indeed intended a trick question :)
③Next time I do one of these I will not include any translations since it is a waste of time to find a translation that is good. Anyway this is what sounded right to me, though I don’t know how natural it is.
exude a conspicuous presence
④Again tsetycoon13 is on to the right thing. This of course is 関西弁! While you may say it is an advanced topic, I think at the very least basic 関西弁 (which this is) is something that everyone should learn. ～ひん、～へん、さかい、や、やで、あかん、あほ are definitely worth learning. There is a nice list here for anyone interested in learning http://sorayuko.s251.xrea.com/kansei.html
This means that there isn’t anything she is particularly good at.
～へん = ない so 特に何もできない
I think dainty would be a good translation for this ^^
⑥See jkl’s answer he found exactly the same page as I did when looking it up. It is a げ adjective taken from 儚い. Don’t ask me about げ adjvectives I know just as much as most of you, and I won’t bother learning about it any time soon :P
Thanks for the feedback, thanks for the answers!
To answer your question tsetycoon13, yes this is a rather standard passage, and is what you can expect used by natives. Around 16k vocab will only give 98% coverage so better start digging those words!June 24, 2013 at 1:17 am #40768
16K vocab…..June 24, 2013 at 5:15 am #40769
yep. 10k vocab is only basic fluency, native fluency is 20k-30k words.June 24, 2013 at 11:12 pm #40778
Plus there’s a layer of context that’s missing if you’re not clued in (what exactly is a “charm point”?). It’s like if you were on an English-learning forum and gave people questions on a passage on My Little Pony… which is actually surprisingly similar to the whole idol thing, when you think about it.
While I can’t say much about not having interest, basically everything idol culture whatever stems from the Japanese entertainment industry, which contains cultural references, words, expressions, everyday lifestyles/situations that would be obvious to a Japanese person. Which means, these are things that you should know too. Unlike the animez and mangas (which I’m sure your Little Pony example would fall into), this is pretty real life. Maybe not as real life as TERRACE HOUSE though.
June 25, 2013 at 9:55 am #40782
Also, if you have been to Japan you will notice how idols are in commercials, in a lot of magazines, in a lot of TV shows, in the news etc.. Idol culture is “real life”. Even on the TV-show missing linked to there once was an AKB member on, and that is probably one of the best resources to learn about how to handle different situations and how to speak natural Japanese.
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