Home Forums Mini-Lessons 2014年3月29日 – 数えることができるっすよね

This topic contains 18 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Joel 10 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #44642

    Anonymous

    I’m quite bored right now, so I figured I would start posting in the mini-lessons category!

    Today will be counting practice. Below I have a list of numbers in Japanese and in English. Please translate Japanese to English, and English to Japanese.

    If you can translate all these numbers appropriately (without using online translation), then you’re counting ability will improve immensely! Remember, Japanese numbers are divided by powers of four.

    For reference:
    十 – ten
    百 – hundred
    千 – thousand
    万 – ten thousand

    Do your best!

    1) 七十六

    2) 48

    3) 五百三十八

    4) 724

    5) 三千九百十五

    6) 6,037

    7) 一万七千四百八十

    8) 54,125

    9) 二十万九

    10) 478,513

    11) 八百九十三万四千六百五十七

    12) 93,478,235

    Tip: Big numbers are always split by 万 into separate smaller numbers. If you understand just this thing, you can count anything.
     

    #44643

    Joel
    Member

    Tip: Big numbers are always split by 万 into separate smaller numbers. If you understand just this thing, you can count anything.<br>

    Always? Why stop at 万? What about 億? 兆? 京? =)

    #44645

    Anonymous

    Always? Why stop at 万? What about 億? 兆? 京? =)

    Oh sorry, I meant just the numbers here. But if you shift the scale bigger, the idea is the same. For example, numbers that include 万 would be split by 億.

    #44647

    1) 七十六
    76

    2) 48
    四十八

    3) 五百三十八
    538

    4) 724
    七百二十四

    5) 三千九百十五
    3915

    6) 6,037
    六千三十七

    7) 一万七千四百八十
    17,480

    8) 54,125
    五万四千百二十五

    9) 二十万九
    200,009

    10) 478,513
    四十七万八千五百十三

    11) 八百九十三万四千六百五十七
    8,934,657

    12) 93,478,235
    九千三百四十七万八千二百三十五

    #44661

    thisiskyle
    Member

    I still always have to mentally rewrite big numbers with the commas in a different spot.
    93,478,235 -> 9347,8235
    I find it a lot easier to say.

    #44662

    Yeah, I do that too but it’s still not easy. When the numbers are bigger, it takes a while for me to work out where the commas should go.

    #44675

    Aikibujin
    Member

    Is that where the commas go when Japanese write out numbers?

    #44679

    Joel
    Member

    Fairly sure that when large numbers are written exclusively using numerals in Japan, commas are still thousand separators (rather than ten thousand). What also happens is something like “42万”.

    #44691

    Yeah, commas are still used in the same way we would use them, as far as I’ve seen. It’s only the actual words that are composed of multiples of 10,000.

    #44720

    Anonymous

    Michael got a perfect score, except that on question 8 the hundreds section should have a one since it’s a big number. Thus 五万四千一百二十五. Well done!

    Here is my tip explained in easier terms. Actually it’s just an example:
    Let’s take 285,923.
    Since Japanese is split by powers of four, it would split as 28,5923.
    From this we can see that the comma splits the two numbers 28 and 5923.
    We can substitute that comma for a 万.
    Thus…
    28 -> 二十八
    5923 -> 五千九百二十三
    So, the answer is (二十八)(万)(五千九百二十三).

    #44725

    Joel
    Member

    …on question 8 the hundreds section should have a one since it’s a big number. Thus 五万四千一百二十五.

    [citation needed]

    #44742

    No, I don’t think it needs the extra 一

    When I type it using my IME, one of the conversion options is 五万四千百二十五. Saying that though, the next conversion option is 五萬四阡壱百弐拾五 which is the same number using the formal versions of the numerals. That one has 壱百, where 壱 is the alternative version of 一

    #44780

    Anonymous

    Just because it appears on IME does not mean it is correct. I have typed a lot of incorrect words by using IME on the first conversion, naturally. Also, your second conversion option basically proves my point.

    Here is your quote from IMABI:

    “いっせん really isn’t ever used unless a number precedes it. So, if you want to say 11,000, you should say いちまんいっせん.”

    I also asked my Japanese friend, and he said that 千 and 百 need a 一 if preceded by any larger number. Therefore 千百 is incorrect.

    #44790

    “I have typed a lot of incorrect words by using IME on the first conversion, naturally.”

    If you’re not counting the formal numbers, this was the only conversion, not the first of many. Maybe the one with formal numbers actually follows different rules.

    Edit: And there you go.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_numerals#Formal_numbers

    “In some cases, the digit 1 is explicitly written like 壱百壱拾 for 110, as opposed to 百十 in common writing.”

    That implies that the digit 1 isn’t usually written there. It’s not conclusive because it doesn’t specifically mention the case where a larger number comes before 百, but then your example only mentioned いっせん, not… I just realised I’m not sure whether it should be いっぴゃく or いちひゃく. Neither appears in the dictionary or IME, so maybe neither are correct and it’s *always* ひゃく, even if it’s written as 壱百.

    However, your Japanese friend said it should be 一百… I mean, a person using their native language incorrectly? That’s unpossible! ;)

    Does this mean I get to keep my perfect score? :D

    #44794

    Anonymous

    No, that’s not quite what I mean.

    I said that you need the digit 1 if there are bigger numbers before 千 or 百. If they are the first numbers, you don’t need the digit 1.

    Of course, your wikipedia link is also correct. You can have 百 or 一百. However, you cannot have something like 四千百. It would have to be 四千一百.
    The same would go for 千 if it wasn’t first in line. You cannot have 四万千. It must be 四万一千.

    My Japanese friend did not mean that hundred always has to be 一百. He just meant if preceded by 千 at the beginning.

    Well, if you still disagree with me, then it can’t be helped, and I’ll respect that.
    I will confess, though, that you may be on to something with the formal numbers.

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