Home Forums The Japanese Language でした confusion

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  • #45943

    Just wondering why when negating でした we add it onto the end of じゃありません but we don’t do that with です? I would have thought that if it’s じゃありませんでした for “was not” then it should be じゃありませんです for “is not”?

    #45949

    Justin
    Member

    I don’t have like, the real explanation for you, but the answer I think of is that it’s just a little peculiarity of the language and that’s just the way it is :P

    For a better answer, see http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/950647-my-japanese-coach/51431231 post # 2.

    Or maybe someone else has a better explanation. Tbh my focus as of late has been on vocab and kanji, not grammar (as much as I love to get some tasty grammar!).

    I haz a blog http://maninjapanchannel.wordpress.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLQzB-1u-dg
    #45952

    Eihiko
    Member

    So I’ve been looking and I can’t actually find anything to suggest that “deshita” is in any related to “desu.”

    The masu form of verbs goes like this:
    present: -masu
    negative: -masen
    past: -mashita
    past negative: -masen deshita

    Let’s assume when masu verbs were invented, desu didn’t exist. Why deshita? Well, the shita part indicates the past. The particle ‘de’ is used to indicate the time/location of an action, so deshita is sort of indicating that the preceding action occurred in the past.

    But then what’s desu? No one knows for sure, but common belief is that it’s a shortened form of “de arimasu” (all the middle letters are removed). The de is, as far as I can tell, put there because historically it softened the phrase, making it sound more polite. That’s why desu is considered polite. So if you expand desu and look at all the ‘to be’ stuff, it looks like this:

    present: de arimasu
    negative: ja arimasen
    past: de arimashita
    past negative: ja arimasen deshita

    So at this point, it’s beginning to look a lot like the masu form for aru, which is the “to be” verb. The only strange thing about it is the ja and the de. ‘ja’ is actually a shortening of ‘dewa’, and as far as I have found, dewa functions similarly to de in this context, but is even softer and even more polite. Perhaps this originated because speaking in the negative was considered more harsh and in need of more softening? I have no idea.

    So the point of all this is that if you add desu to the end of ja arimasen, you’re actually saying ja arimasen de arimasu, which is nonsensical, where as if you put deshita at the end of ja arimasen, you’re just conjugating the masu form.

    Not from the desk of Eihiko. Eihiko's boss took his desk away from him.
    #45955

    Thanks for the replies! That makes a lot of sense.

    I suppose I should just take many things for granted. After all, the English language is full of contradictions and confusions :)

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