Home Forums The Japanese Language 一人 problem – Help please

This topic contains 13 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  MisterM2402 [Michael] 11 years ago.

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  • #39514

    Willy
    Member

    Hi guys,

    New here -bought myself Textfugu two days ago so I’m a bit of a beginner (this should probably go in an intro thread, but this problem came up before I’ve had a chance to intro myself.

    Essentially, I thought I was going alright, really starting to “get” the grammar and feeling like I was learning well and really getting somewhere (です でした じゃありません etc). I learnt the 1 and 2 stroke radicals and  though I was perhaps a little confused at times, Koichi (that’s the guy who writes TF, right? (Hi Koichi!)) assured me in the lessons that it wasn’t totally important and that I would get it eventually. I was practicing and going through pages until I got here: http://www.textfugu.com/season-2/past-tense-nouns/practice/ I completed all the practices up until 一人 でした。For some reason, I read it as いちにん。But, when I pressed the button to listen to it, it came back with “Hitori deshita”. I did some reading of the Kanji pages and kind of worked out/remembered that you go with the kun’yomi meaning/reading if it’s several kanji chained together (is that right?). So I looked and saw that “人” was “Hito” so assumed “一” would be the “ri”. But I can’t see that anywhere, with “一” I just see “ひと.つ”.

    Anyway, did I miss something? Am I an idiot? How was I supposed to know it was Hitori? Did I skip something or not follow instructions properly? What’s the rule with Kanji like this, how is it pronounced?

    Sorry if this is at all confusing, I’m just as confused myself. Any help would be appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Willy.

    #39515

    Jason
    Member

    Did you review the anki deck that’s in the in the Kanji 1-1 section prior to that practice page?  一人 should be in that deck somewhere.

    http://www.textfugu.com/downloads/anki/vocab/kanji/kanjivocab1-1.zip

     

    • This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by  Jason.
    #39517

    Astralfox
    Member

    To answer your questions; You might have missed something saying that 一人 has an special reading (I can’t remember whether that something exists or not). As far as I can tell, your not an idiot. Well, now you know. Things like that happen even when you follow the instructions. The rule is that the word 一人 just has that reading, it’s an exception (二人 has a special reading too, but from 三人 they follow the normal ’rules’).

    #39518

    Ugh, so many basic questions like these are asked time and time again – if Koichi actually came to forum more than once in a rainbow moon (much less frequent than a blue moon), he’d see that “hey, lots of people are having trouble with this point, maybe I should MAKE IT CLEARER so that it doesn’t CONFUSE THE BEJESUS out of people…”.

    He says he’s writing the book from the viewpoint of a learner, basing the stuff off his own experiences, but he doesn’t seem to do enough to find out what *other* people find difficult, how to improve his writing and explanations. The TextFugu forum is the *ideal* place to figure out what people are having trouble with, just from the sheer volume of people asking about the same things haha.

    …why do I keep complaining about a textbook I don’t even use any more? XD Maybe I should write my OWN textbook! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the textbook and the blackjack! Eh, screw the whole thing…

    #39521

    Anonymous

    EXACTLY!  He doesn’t even seem that serious about Textfugu, and the material he has covered so far is rather basic to be honest.  I would use Textfugu more if he actually had some committed updates and schedules, but he doesn’t.  Some people are really trying to learn Japanese, and they don’t have the time to waste waiting for new lessons and grammar, especially when they can just learn it somewhere else like TaeKim’s.

    #39524

    He probably doesn’t have the enthusiasm for it he once did; he can’t really give up on it completely since people have paid him good money. Can’t exactly refund anyone either, since all the money’s been spent on trips to Japan :P

    He did say he was going to put up some more advanced lessons next – supposedly *before* re-re-re-re-designing the rest of the site – but we’ll see…

    #39564

    Zoey
    Member

    I’m a beginner too, but I’ll try to answer your question anyway (if any person more advanced than I am spots any mistake, please correct me!). It’s a special reading and I don’t think it would have been possible to know with the lesson. I think Koichi put it on the practice page to show that exceptions exist… maybe? Anyway, your “ichinin” would have been good if 一人 weren’t an exception, since 三人 (not an exception) is pronounced “sannin”.

    So I looked and saw that “人” was “Hito” so assumed “一” would be the “ri”. But I can’t see that anywhere, with “一” I just see “ひと.つ”.

    In Japanese, there are many “counters”, “nin” being one of them: to count people. Counters are basically something you put after a number to show what you are counting (the つ you saw in ひと.つ is for counting small objects, for example). When you assumed that 一 would be “ri”, it wasn’t correct. “ri” is actually another way of pronouncing 人, while “hito” is another way of pronouncing 一, as you can see in 一つ (hitotsu) for example.

    If we look at 二人, we can see that it’s the same thing: it’s pronounced as “futari”, “futa” being 二 and “ri” being 人.

     

    I hope this explanation helped you a bit and wasn’t too confusing >.<!

    #39578

    Willy
    Member

    I appreciate all of your help, but I’m still very confused.

    Are these exceptions just for numbers or for any kind of counting? i.e. 5 dogs, 1 sparrow etc.

    I need definitive rules and exceptions so I can get my head around this.

    #39584

    Joel
    Member

    Different things have different counting words – for example, small animals use 匹 (ひき), birds use 羽 (わ), books use 冊 (さつ), flat things use 枚 (まい), long thin things use 本 (ほん), machines use 台 (だい), et cetera, et cetera. Generic “things” use the Japanese reading of numbers with つ. There’s a big list. Most of them have occasional exceptions – typically for four, six and eight, and occasionally three or ten. (Though they’re never so extreme as the exceptions for 人. Or 日. Boy, does 日 have exceptions.)

    More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_counter_word

    #39705

    David Gorski
    Member

    Hi everyone! I’m new here, but that is beside the point. I had a similar question regarding 一つ.

    On the kanji page for 一, 一つ’s written pronunciation is ひとつ, but the audio seems to say すとつ. Ive looked for the answer online, but I have found both pronunciations. Can someone please clarify what is going on here, and when each should be used.

    Thanks!

    #39706

    ink
    Member

    @David:  一つ is ひとつ with a weird ひ sound. It kind of sounds like a cat’s hiss to me. xP

    #39707

    You said you found it pronounced both ways – where did you hear it as すとつ? It should be read ひとつ, so I’m guessing you’re mishearing it.

    #39708

    Joel
    Member

    I wouldn’t place too much faith in online recordings – microphone artefacts can make things sound a little off sometimes, and compression artefacts can’t help either.

    That said, people who have commented on this in the past tend to hear “しとつ”…

    #39709

    Yeah, I was gonna say that about しとつ – not very common to mishear it as とつ haha

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