This topic contains 6 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  クリス 12 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #29057

    jkl
    Member

    I have been doing a bit of etymological study over on http://www.kanjinetworks.com/index.cfm lately. The idea is that doing a little reading about etymology (the historical origins of the kanji) can provide some insight that helps you understand why a particular kanji is put together the way it is, and hence make the kanji easier to remember.

    Of course, this kind of research isn’t always fruitful, and sometimes the information you find raises more questions than it answers. Also, the site doesn’t explain very well where its information comes from, so some of the information might just be educated guesswork. In any case, I think the information is useful enough to merit a writeup.

    One historical fact about kanji that is sometimes useful is that certain kanji are formed in a particular way from a pair of two components. One is related to the meaning, and the other is related to the reading.

    For example, consider the words ご飯 (ごはん) and 販売 (はんばい). In these words the first kanji is composed of two parts, and the right part is the same. Also, the reading of the first kanji is the same. That is not a coincidence. The kanji were put together that way on purpose. This particular example is special because that right-hand component is also a common kanji in its own right, and gets used in the word 反対 (はんたい) for example.

    Another useful historical fact is that some kanji components have a common historical “ancestor”, so they are cousins of sorts. In certain cases, this information can be useful when combined with other sorts of information.

    For example, note the faint visual similarity between the pair of vertical lines at the top of 花 (flower) and the slanted lines at the top of the kanji in 咲く (to blossom). Apparently the top parts of these kanji are both derived from the old kanji 艸, which is a doubled form of a pictograph representing small plants.

    Also note the common “夭” component shared between 笑う (to laugh) and 咲く. Finally, note what looks like a small version of 口 (mouth) on the left side of 咲く. These facts, taken together, suggest a striking mnemonic: “a blossom is a plant’s mouth laughing.”

    But is that just a bit of mnemonic fiction, or does it have any possible etymological significance? Well apparently there is an ancient Chinese poem that goes:

    鳥鳴花咲 (birds sing, flowers smile)

    It is my understanding that in the real poem the 咲 character was actually some historical variant which originally meant smile or laugh. The poem playfully suggests the analogy “鳴 is to 鳥 as 咲 is to 花”. And this type of usage is what gives 咲く its meaning in modern Japanese.

    It is a paradox of learning that adding more information sometimes makes things easier to remember. When it comes to using etymology to help study kanji, probably everyone is going to have their own opinion of how useful it is. But I think it is worth a look.

    #29064

    Anonymous

    Interesting. I’ve always wondered why 仲 had the exact on’yomi and kun’yomi as 中. :D

    #29070

    KiaiFighter
    Member

    That is interesting and I have heard that typically in kanji, some radicals indicate meaning while others indicate pronunciation/reading.

    one thing tho, this kanji 夭 is used in 笑う however, the kanji 咲 (from 咲く) is composed of 天 (as in 天気) meaning heaven

    and so, in that chinese poem, it might be better translated as “birds sing, flowers bloom” referencing spring time.

    I know how much of a pain in the ass kanji is. It takes a while to study it and this is one situation where stroke order/direction is more important than we might think. because 夭 and 天 are different kanji with different meanings and readings. the only difference is the first stroke. (in 夭 it is right to left, in 天 it is left to right)

    This is the same problem I am sure many people have with 入 and 人 or ソ and ン.

    • This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by  KiaiFighter.
    #29073

    Pretty cool. I doubt the benefit is all that big if you have done RTK though, since it will give you mnemonics for all kanji, and learn you correct stroke order, primitives of kanji etc.
    Some of it might be helpful though ^^ I will have a look thx for the link.

    #29091

    jkl
    Member

    > and so, in that chinese poem, it might be better translated as “birds sing, flowers bloom” referencing spring time.

    I’m still a little unclear about how that poem was originally written, and what its literal meaning was. Here is the entry on 咲 that gave me the information:

    http://www.kanjinetworks.com/eng/kanji-dictionary/online-kanji-etymology-dictionary.cfm?kanji_id=SOG21

    > 夭 and 天 are different kanji with different meanings and readings

    That is exactly why etymology is helpful here. Even though in modern writing 咲 is written like 天, the etymology information above says that historically it is actually related to 夭, and hence there is a connection to 笑. Etymology allows you to see a connection that you might otherwise miss. Of course you have to remember that the modern way of writing it is different, and sometimes that makes this kind of information more trouble than it is worth.

    For reference, here is the entry on 笑 which talks about the connection to 咲 a bit more:

    http://www.kanjinetworks.com/eng/kanji-dictionary/online-kanji-etymology-dictionary.cfm?kanji_id=SOG22

    Another case where the modern writing doesn’t agree with the historical development is 膝. That part on the left looks like 月, but that’s not where it came from. It actually a simplified form of 肉. Seeing that helps you understand where its meaning comes from. Here is the entry:

    http://www.kanjinetworks.com/eng/kanji-dictionary/online-kanji-etymology-dictionary.cfm?kanji_id=SATx13

    Again, I have no way of knowing whether any of the information on that site is correct, and I’m not claiming that etymology is always helpful. Sometimes I read entries on that site and can’t see any connection at all between what is supposed to be some ancient engraving or something and the modern kanji. But so far there are have been enough cases where something interesting came up that I think the site is worth a look.

    #29106

    Joel
    Member

    I’m always interested in etymology (though I’m not sure the word “etymology” applies to pictographs =P). Why, for example, is 虹, rainbow, comprised of a bug (虫) and engineering (工)?

    #29109

    クリス
    Member

    UUmmm…because that’s how rainbows are made? DUH!

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