Home Forums The Japanese Language 'must do' and 'must not do'

This topic contains 6 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Aikibujin 10 years ago.

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  • #43950

    キース
    Member

    皆、読んでありがとう

    Can anyone help me clarify (or send me to some links regarding this point) the logic of the grammar behind ‘must do’ and ‘must not do’?

    毎日学校に行かなくてはなりません。
    Is this like… One must not not go to school everyday, or Going to school everyday must not go undone?

    And is the sentence below the opposite(?):

    毎日学校に行ってはならない
    One must not go to school everyday, or Going to school everyday must not be done?

    I’m very confused! If anyone can help clarify this form, along with its counterparts (like だめ、なければなりません、なければいけません、and なきゃいけません) I’d be eternally grateful!

    The informal versions are not as bad, like 勉強しなくちゃ, but what is the opposite? How appropriate is this to use everyday with strangers in Japan?

    Thanks for the help!

    • This topic was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by  キース.
    #43953

    I was going to link you to a page on Tae Kim, but considering you’ve used the exact same example, I’m assuming you’ve already seen it.

    “One must not not go to school every day” – while you’re right that it’s a double negative, I think a better English transliteration would be something like “If you don’t go to school every day, it’s no good (i.e. you must go)”. It makes more sense when you consider the similar constructions using と and ば.

    I think the positive equivalent of that example would be 勉強しちゃ. Here’s some example sentences using しちゃ with other words:
    http://jisho.org/sentences?jap=shicha&eng=

    #43956

    Joel
    Member

    I can never remember what なくちゃ and なきゃ are supposed to be abbreviations of…

    That said, 勉強しなくちゃ is 勉強しなくてはいけない.

    Also, be careful when searching for しちゃ, because しちゃう is an abbreviation for してしまう. =)

    #43964

    thisiskyle
    Member

    The ~なくちゃ construction is somewhat feminine. It is a slur/contraction of ~なくては.

    The ては goes to ちゃ. This is somewhat common with て form constructions. For example, 食べてしまった can be contracted to 食べちゃった. Which is another example of what Joel mentioned with しちゃう.

    なきゃ short for なければ.

    Both なくちゃ and なきゃ when used at the end of a sentence mean “must do”. They leave off the (implied) ending (ない、いけない、ならない、だめ).

    The basic construction of all these types are [Don't do a thing] + [something bad].
    That’s the basic construction (and the second part can be left off). If you remember that, the different forms should all make sense.

    • This reply was modified 10 years ago by  thisiskyle.
    #43966

    Anonymous

    なければ can also turn into なけりゃ, by the way.

    #43971

    Anonymous

    “I think the positive equivalent of that example would be 勉強しちゃ.”

    Unlike しなくちゃ or しなきゃ, you cannot use しちゃ by itself. You have to add いけない or だめ.

    毎日学校に行かなくてはいけない。
    毎日学校に行かなければなりません。
    毎日学校に行かないといけません。
    毎日学校に行かなきゃいけない。
    毎日学校に行かなくちゃだめ(だ)。
    毎日学校に行かなけりゃいけない。
    毎日学校に行かなくては。
    毎日学校に行かなければ。
    毎日学校に行かないと。
    毎日学校に行かなきゃ。
    毎日学校に行かなくちゃ。
    毎日学校に行かなけりゃ。
    毎日学校に行かねばならぬ。
    毎日学校に行かなかったらあかん。
    While having different nuances, all these mean “I have to go to school every day.”

    毎日は学校に行ってはいけない。
    毎日は学校に行っちゃだめ(だ)。
    毎日は学校に行ったらあかん。
    These three sentences mean “Every day I must not go to school.”

    #43972

    Aikibujin
    Member

    Tsetycoon! You’ve transformed into a girl! And a cartoon! @_@

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