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I wonder if my desire to understand every grammar rule, for every sentence I write and read, is holding me back?
Should I be going with the flow more, and worry less about all of the details?
As a software developer if I don’t have a complete grasp of the strict grammar and syntax of a programming language I cannot write functional code, let alone good code. Does this habit not translate well into spoken languages? Or is this a good approach with spoken languages as well?
It will hold you back because of the 80-20 thingy explained by koichi, concentrating on every grammar rule, the time invested won’t return much useful information. It’s something you should be asking yourself actually, how valuable is this information? What use is it to you?
There are too many ‘professors’ out there, ‘professors’ know all there is to know about a subject yet know nothing. A japanese ‘professor’ can tell me that Kanji originated from oracle bone script in extraordinary detail and that desu infact doesn’t mean ‘it is’ and all kinds of trivia about Japan. But talk to them in basic japanese and their eyes glaze over.
Footnote:
words don’t map directly to eachother, they translate (as in transform) which results in a list of similar words.
word.translate(daijyoubu) returns [safe, ok, alright]
word.translate(ok) returns [daijyoubu, ii, yoi]
daijyoubu != ok
Words also mean different things in different places. e.g. “hand over” = “give” (hand = give, over = give)!
Let’s go with the programming analogy.
What is grammar? Syntax. Can you write a program with only syntax?
No you need semantic content.
Syntax is useful so something can be parsed by the interpreter or compiler etc. but you need a little somethin’ somethin’, some semantics are needed to tell it what to do.
So whats the semantics? Its the Vocab, the kanjis etc.
Oh and you know its all very well knowing a language but you also need something to say, cos you know my biggest problem with programming was I never had anything to write, I had no target or goal of what I wanted.
So you need to work out a goal of what you need to do.
Japanese is tricksy because you really gain a lot from knowing grammar and a whole bunch of vocab and kanjis and how to write, and how to speak, you need all these things, and then suddenly it becomes a lot easier to do anything in Japanese. The fact that it takes a lot of ground work to reach a special happy place where you feel you are advancing is what makes it so hard.
If you only focus on obaasan, then you don’t reach the critical mass on the other parts to explode into a mushroom cloud of learningosity all over your face.
Get rid of those carbon moderation rods and allow your high energy learning neutrons to fly free.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by
vlgi. Reason: don't ask
Anonymousexplode into a mushroom cloud of learningosity all over your face.
uwotm8
@huw – Finally, someone is speaking my language. :)
“word.translate(daijyoubu) returns [safe, ok, alright]
word.translate(ok) returns [daijyoubu, ii, yoi]
daijyoubu != ok”Also, I like how you pointed out the professor problem. In learning what I’ve learned so far I’ve found I can babble for some time about the language, and things I find cool or interesting about it. It hasn’t been my goal to know things for that purpose, it’s just a side effect. I’d prefer, until I can actually speak the language well, to keep it that way. Your thoughts have helped me to focus on that point.
Thanks!
@vlgi – “my biggest problem with programming was I never had anything to write, I had no target or goal of what I wanted.”
My goal was to write games. Because of that I had to write a program to create image files, this is pre-Internet boom, because I couldn’t find any books on existing image formats. To create that program I had to design my own image file format. Once I learned to program, and wrote an application to draw and store images, I had to create a way to implement those images in my games. After that I could finally write a game. Oh yeah, I had to teach myself to program in the process. Doing all of that kept me plenty busy till people started paying me to write applications, so yeah I totally see what you’re saying.
For me, my goals for learning Japanese are the following:
* Play Japanese video games.
* Play Japanese board games/card games.
* Read Japanese Books/Comics.
* Watch Japanese TV/Movies.
* Talk to Japanese people.
* Apply my business experience and theoretical language skills to work in the Asian markets.
* Live in Japan.Hopefully, all of that will keep me plenty busy. :)
“The fact that it takes a lot of ground work to reach a special happy place where you feel you are advancing is what makes it so hard.”
For real. Japanese requires a surprising amount of up front work to have any level of skill. It makes it very challenging to know if you’re spinning your wheels or not. From the ages of about 4 till 17 I worked every day to learn to draw. I mean every single day. I took many art classes, and practiced like crazy. Eventually, I had to give up. I can’t draw. I’m terrible at it. I want to make sure that I can actually achieve this goal like I did with programming.
“If you only focus on obaasan, then you don’t reach the critical mass on the other parts to explode into a mushroom cloud of learningosity all over your face.”
Obaasan, as in grandmother? I’m a bit lost on this one.
Anonymous“If you only focus on obaasan, then you don’t reach the critical mass on the other parts to explode into a mushroom cloud of learningosity all over your face.”
Obaasan, as in grandmother? I’m a bit lost on this one.
Out of all that Obaasan is the part that lost you!?!?
@Bbvoncrumb – erm, yup. The rest embiggened my learningosity.
Well yeah, why should Obaasan get all your attention? I’m sure Okaasan and Oneesan could also help you explode into a mushroom cloud of learngosity…
On a serious note, I think he means don’t sweat on the tiny details and focus on gaining more overall practice and knowledge with the language.
This is an interesting take on it: http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/language-is-peeing
Hey, that’s an… interesting post!
Actually, that’s a good attitude, and insight. I suppose I’m consuming as much as I can, it just happens to be of the textbook variety most of the time. Still, it’s good to keep this in mind, and see where I can new places to fit “drinking” into my schedule.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by
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